Legislature(1997 - 1998)

02/25/1998 05:03 PM House FSH

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
        HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                   
                 February 25, 1998                                             
                     5:03 p.m.                                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
                                                                               
Representative Ivan Ivan                                                       
Representative Mark Hodgins                                                    
Representative Gene Kubina                                                     
                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
                                                                               
Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman                                        
Representative Scott Ogan                                                      
                                                                               
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
                                                                               
* HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 54                                                
Relating to establishing maritime boundaries with Canada.                      
                                                                               
     - MOVED HJR 54 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                           
                                                                               
(* First public hearing)                                                       
                                                                               
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                
                                                                               
BILL: HJR 54                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: ALASKA MARITIME BOUNDARY WITH CANADA                              
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) VEZEY, Ryan                                     
                                                                               
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                          
01/30/98      2180     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                  

01/30/98 2180 (H) FISHERIES, WTR 02/25/98 (H) FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124 WITNESS REGISTER REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 13 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-6617 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor HJR 54. CAPTAIN VINCE O'SHEA, Chief Maritime and Operations Plans and Policy Division 17th Coast Guard District Juneau, Alaska 99802 Telephone: (907) 463-2226 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 54. DAN LEATLERS, Charter Operator P.O. Box 6714 Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Telephone: (907) 225-8510 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 54. DAVE OTTE, Troller P.O. Box 5103 Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Telephone: (907) 225-7814 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 54. SONNY CAMPBELL, Charter Operator P.O. Box 8889 Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Telephone: (907) 247-3315 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 54. BILL FOSTER, Member Northern Panel Pacific Salmon Commission 307 Islander Drive Sitka, Alaska 99835 Telephone: (907) 747-0629 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HJR 54. DEBRA LYONS, Troll Industry Representative Northern Panel Pacific Salmon Commission P.O. Box 379 Sitka, Alaska 99835 Telephone: (907) 747-0629 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 54. DENNIS WATSON, Mayor City of Craig P.O. Box 134 Craig, Alaska 99921 Telephone: (907) 826-3438 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 54. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-7, SIDE A Number 0001 VICE-CHAIR IVAN IVAN called the House Special Committee on Fisheries meeting to order at 5:03 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Ivan and Hodgins. Representative Kubina arrived at 5:05 p.m. HJR 54 - ALASKA MARITIME BOUNDARY WITH CANADA Number 0033 VICE-CHAIR IVAN indicated that the committee would hear HJR 54, Relating to establishing maritime boundaries with Canada. He asked Representative Vezey, sponsor, to present the bill. Number 0048 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY stated that the U.S. and Canada do not have a maritime boundary. He explained that it goes back to the Russia- America Agreement of 1825. Russia and Great Britain drew up a convention line for Alaska and the British interests Canada. It was precipitated by Russian American company action in 1821, that banned foreign vessels for a distance of about 40 leagues offshore of Russian Territory. He stated that it did not work but it precipitated the Russia-American agreement which we adopted when we purchased Alaska. He stated that at the time no one gave any consideration to maritime boundaries and Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ). Number 0227 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that in 1976 the United States unilaterally expanded its territorial waters from the 12-mile traditional limit to the 200-mile EEZ, the world then followed suit. The issue that is before Alaska is the Portland Channel and Dixon Entrance area of Alaska near Saxman and Ketchikan. He declared that the bigger issue is the extension of the maritime boundary from the line of demarcation following the 141st meridian. That is the line from the Northern Coast of Alaska going up to the limit of the EEZ. He stated that it is an area that is unresolved and HJR 54 is prodding the federal government to recognize that under the U.S. law, Alaska has a right to have a representative present at those negotiations. Number 0367 CAPTAIN VINCE O'SHEA, Chief, Maritime and Operations Plans and Policy Division, 17th Coast Guard District, stated that he was prepared to present the issues involving the U.S. Canada Maritime boundary or answer any questions that the committee may have. He asked the committee what their preference is. Number 0480 VICE-CHAIR IVAN stated that the committee wishes to ask questions. Number 0484 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS questioned why this issue was in the fisheries committee and he asked if there is a concern from the Coast Guard's standpoint to carry forward with the resolution. CAPTAIN O'SHEA replied that there is an issue in Dixon Entrance between the A/B line which Canada maintains is a maritime boundary. The U.S. believes that was simply a line to separate the land masses between Dixon Entrance. The U.S. claims that the boundary is the equidistant line between the two maritime boundaries, creating the disputed areas. He stated that the U.S. has had an agreement with Canada since 1977, as to how operation would occur in the disputed area. He stated that one part of that agreement was in the form of diplomatic notes between the two countries, saying that each country would enforce its fishing rules on its own vessels in the disputed area. Number 0581 CAPTAIN O'SHEA stated that in 1980, Canadian enforcement took law enforcement action against U.S. trollers that were operating in the disputed area. He stated that they claimed that the agreement did not apply to nontraditional fisheries in the area. He declared that this point has been debated back and forth between the two countries over the years. The two countries have agreed to disagree on that interpretation. He stated to answer Representative Hodgins' question, it is an a potential area of friction between the two countries, that if a clearly agreed to maritime boundary was established, the conflict would not exist. Number 0629 CAPTAIN O'SHEA stated that the coast guard does not have an official position as to whether or not this resolution ought to go forward. It is consistent with the position that the U.S. State Department has taken in years past in urging the government of Canada to sit down, negotiate and agree to a maritime boundary. Number 0655 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if he could clarify that the boundary of the landmass starts of Prince of Wales Island. CAPTAIN O'SHEA, put up a chart of the area. He stated that the northern most line is the A/B line and the lower line would be the equidistant line and the difference is about 15 miles wide. REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that he did not mean to cut the testimony off but the committee is going to lose their quorum soon. Number 0786 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN stated that he would like to take some brief testimony from people on teleconference. Number 0835 DAN LEATLERS, Charter Operator, testified via teleconference from Ketchikan that the charter operators have been pushed by the Canadian trollers fishing the north edge of the A/B line. There have also been several charter boats that have been harassed by Canadian parole vessels. He stated that it is unfortunate that there is a "binary" to fish within a days run from Ketchikan, but they have to worry about being part of an international incident especially since there has been a treaty in existence since 1976, that states the border is about 15 miles further to the south. He asserted that they are intimated to go down to the northern edge of the A/B line. Number 0942 DAVE OTTE, Troller, testified via teleconference from Ketchikan, that he mostly fishes at Cape Muzon, the area near Dixon Entrance. He stated that a border needs to be established because it is very vague, as to who is allowed to fish there. In the past couple of years the Canadians have pushed the line and are now claiming it is their border. He explained that this past summer the Canadian coast guard told them that they could not fish there and the U.S. coast guard told them not to cause an incident, therefore the U.S. trollers left. Number 1007 SONNY CAMPBELL, Charter Operator, testified via teleconference from Ketchikan that he fishes around the Cape Chackon and Cape Muzon along the A/B line and over in the equidistant part of the U.S. boundary. He explained that they are constantly being harassed by the Canadian fishermen. It has gotten worse as the Canadian coast guard has warned them and have tried to board U.S. Boats. He stated that this causes the Canadian fishermen to get braver with their harassment. He stated that if there is fog and the coast guard is not there the Canadian fishermen will fish across the A/B line and into U.S. waters. He asserted that he has witnessed this numerous times. He stated that at night they enter into U.S. harbors and continue to fish again the next day. He stated that the line runs very close to Alaska and the Canadian fishermen could cut off a lot of the fishery in Southeast Alaska. Number 1130 BILL FOSTER, Member, Northern Panel Pacific Salmon Commission, testified via teleconference from Sitka, that the Dixon Entrance line is a real problem in the treaty process. He explained that last year in the stake holder process the boundary line was a constant issue. He stated that he would like to state that if there was a historical interest in the boundary there is a book called The Boundary Hunters that gives an interesting Canadian perspective. Number 1190 DEBRA LYONS, Troll Industry Representative, Northern Panel Pacific Salmon Commission, testified via teleconference from Sitka, urging passage of HJR 54, as it would flag how important the fishery is to the state. She stated that the Canadian boats are fishing within three miles of the Alaska shoreline. It is then a federal water issue and a state waters issue. She pointed out that it used to be just the Alaska trollers who were harassed but it has now extended to the sport fishery and the long line fishery. She stated that the vessels are anchoring in U.S. waters. Number 1279 DENNIS WATSON, Mayor, City of Craig, testified via teleconference from Craig in favor of HJR 54. He stated that he is also commercial salmon troller and has fished around the Dixon Entrance area since 1978. He stated that it has gotten ugly and impossible to fish down there due to the amount of harassment that occurs. He stated that he has discussed this issue with the U.S. State Department. The boundary needs to be moved out to the equidistant line to eliminate the current situation. Number 1356 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS made a motion to move HJR 54 with individual recommendations and the attached fiscal note out of committee. Number 1382 VICE-CHAIR IVAN asked if there was an objection. Hearing none, HJR 54 was moved out of the House Special Committee on Fisheries. ADJOURNMENT Number 1386 VICE-CHAIR IVAN adjourned the House Special Committee on Fisheries meeting at 5:30 p.m.

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